Decoding the Debate of Faith vs. Works and Recovered vs. Never Recovered
Am I to Do Anything or Not: Sitting at the Intersection of Faith vs. Works
19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to acknowledge, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless?
So, you believed in your heart and confessed with your lips and got “saved.” You have received your get-out-of-hell-free card. Now that this has been accomplished, what is it that makes you any better than the demons while you are still here on earth?
Here is a deeper question to ponder: “If God intended simply for us not to go to hell because we believe and then nothing we did matters, why do we need a one-thousand two-hundred to two-thousand-page book of instructions with several books in it being books of instructions addressed specifically to people who have already believed?”
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Why do so many read that book and come to the conclusion that the point is strictly to believe and then switch completely to autopilot and ignore every instruction after that?
Are the people of God supposed to be a chaotic group of uncaring people who ignore the world, waiting to die because at least they won’t end up in hell? Or, are we all supposed to be complete robots with no willpower and thinking of our own, running around with a thousand or two pages of completely irrelevant information we are pretending to be led by? Could there be a more reasonable explanation that is more aligned with the giant book of guidelines and instructions from the one we serve?
Let’s continue this switch of gears. Consider this verse:
Wait, We Were Created for Good Works?
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
We are capital “His” workmanship, created in Christ Jesus “for good works.” “Good works that God prepared beforehand so we could walk in them.
But no matter how you cut I, we are not “saved” by these “good works” according to this verse, but adversely, we were created for these “good works.”
Remember the verse we looked at earlier with the “not a result of works, so that no one may boast” ending Ephesians 2:18-20? This is the same chapter of the same book.
We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works
Consider this verse from the Alcoholics Anonymous Book:
For we are now on a different basis: the basis of trusting and relying upon God. We Trust infinite God rather than our finite selves. We are in the world to play the role He assigns.
Alcoholics Anonymous pg. 68
We Must “Obey” With Fear and Trembling
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13 New American Standard Bible
Here is a verse considered a powerful verse for the other side of this common argument. Here, you have this: “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” That seems like it is saying salvation is something you have to “work out.”
One key fact here is that the rest of the sentence mentions “God who is at work in you” and that, in context, this letter is addressed to believers. That implies they already have believed in their hearts and confessed with their mouths, yet still somehow have something else to do. Something else that involves effort.
It is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.
The Alcoholics Anonymous folks felt that it would take daily realignment to keep you on course.
We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonesty, or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental facilities with assurance, for God gave us brains to use.
Alcoholics Anonymous pg. 86
This leads to another deep question, “If it doesn’t matter what you do after you have believed and are “saved,” why pray at all?” Especially for strength to do the right thing if it was either going to happen by itself without your thoughts or just flat out doesn’t matter what you do.
The supposed argument is about the idea of “works” or “no works.” The conversation is really about does it matter what you think and do after you have believed and have the Holy Spirit guiding you, so let us look at another verse:
We Have Been Saved to Die to Sin. Shall We Still Live in It?
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life.
In this context, these are not just people who have believed in their hearts and then confessed with their mouths; these are described as people who have also been baptized. Everything here is explained as “so we may walk in the newness of life.”
Remember a couple of Bible verses we read before this one, “for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation” from Romans 10:9-10? Again, this is the same book, and the same author says, “Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?“
Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
On the one hand, these people have previously believed in their hearts, confessed with their mouths, and even took another step and were baptized. They are, by all accounts, “saved.”
On the other hand, why even write something like “Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?“ if there wasn’t some action being requested or required?
A couple more verses on if we have to “DO” anything and what that means before we get to the other part of the supposed argument as to whether a person is “recovered” or not:
Sanctified by “the Spirit” to Obey Jesus Christ.
To those who reside as strangers, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
1 Peter 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible
In this verse, these people from several countries are chosen by God and sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit “to obey Jesus Christ.” Many skip the “to obey Jesus Christ” part and jump to the ” Sprinkled with His blood ” part.
Once again, in context, these are assumed to be people who have already believed in their hearts and confessed with their mouths, so the “saved” part is already accomplished. After that, this sanctifying work of the Spirit leads them “to obey Jesus Christ.” That is a big word “obey.”
Why bother instructing them to obey if they had no part in it? On the other hand, if they are doing it, why does it require “the sanctifying work of the Spirit?”
We are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ!
In the Alcoholics Anonymous book, it says:
If you persist, remarkable things will happen. When we look back, we realize that the things which come to us when we put ourselves in God’s hands were better than anything we could have planned.
Alcoholics Anonymous pg. 100
If you only recognize two sides to an argument, and neither works with the question, somewhere, both views are wrong, and there must be a third answer.
Let’s look at a bit more about this “sanctifying work of the Spirit”:
Instructions to Choose to Walk by the Spirit and not the Desire of the Flesh
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well.
Galatians 5:16-25 New American Standard Bible
The entire point of this passage is that we can be led by “the Spirit” or led by the flesh. Once again, this letter is to believers.
Remember the passage before where we read, “knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus?” Well, this is in that same book (a letter to the “believers” in a place named Galatia.)
There are “deeds of the flesh” and “fruit of the Spirit.” For the extremists who reach the “you don’t have to do anything” extreme of faith calling that “works,” this is a long list of things to do and not do. For those on the other side of that argument, it says nothing here about being “saved by doing any of these things. As a matter of fact, the access to “the Spirit” and knowing to whom this letter is addressed suggests that it is people that are already “saved” that have to worry about what it says here.
Much has been said about receiving strength, inspiration, and direction from Him who has all knowledge and power. If we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent we have become God-conscious.
Alcoholics Anonymous pg. 85
Okay, to the point on what so many describe with the word “works.” No person of average intelligence from God and definitely nobody “walking by the Spirit” believes that you can honestly ignore every instruction in the Bible, and God will be happy. There is also clear scriptural evidence that “salvation” does not come by any specific set of rules followed.
Walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh!
These are two mostly unrelated topics that have some overlap, but the argument itself is the source of utter confusion. We could never please God by just trying to follow specific rules, but we were also created to obey and follow God’s rules. We just read both concepts written by the same person in similar places, and either are left to wonder why the same person says so many things that are completely opposed to each other or to make up weird explanations for why he said something that is the opposite of the side I am comfortable with.
There is a third option if these ideas from the same person in the Bible seem to conflict, your understanding of them and not the concepts that have issues.
If the argument, as commonly put forth, was valid, the author and, ultimately, the Bible would be invalid for arguing for both opposing truths. The point is that “if you are saved, the Spirit is your source of strength and drive to “obey Jesus Christ” being “led by the Spirit.”
That, being led by the spirit, is not a possession like an evil spirit in some exorcism movie, where the Spirit puppets you around, forcing you to do good against your will.
There are many passages with similar ideas to the “work out your own salvation” passage in Philippians, but they are not saying that salvation comes from those actions. However, being “saved” will lead to godly actions when the Spirit is leading you.
The desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want!
What we are saved by, and do we need to be obedient to or listen to, are not necessarily the same question. Once you have believed in your heart and confessed with your mouth, that point is where we need to go to Romans 6:1-2: “Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?”
My point is, call it whatever you like, but you have to believe in your heart and confess with your mouth to be “saved.” That is your “get out of hell free card.” You also have to be obedient to what God wants, and although there is much argument as to why and what happens if you do not, it does not matter; God said to do it, and you should do it. At the least, those “saved” and possibly all of humanity were created for good works and obedience to God’s will. It does not matter what you call it or what a person thinks will be the result. God’s will is not done; it is simply a fact.
In that sense, both sides are correct. Still, the fact that this argument misleads some people into feeling that they do not need to be obedient to God’s will or that they can pick and choose by their comfort level regarding what God wants them to do and what to ignore from His direct instructions converts this usually vigorous argument into an exercise of evil and distortion of the truth. It becomes a struggle to do less and less of what the Bible and, ultimately, God has directly instructed us to do.
If we do nothing that does not lead to salvation, we imply that we can stop caring about what God tells us to do after we believe in our hearts and confess with our lips. Here is a news flash: We can avoid hell altogether but still be made entirely miserable while still alive here on Earth.
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these.
The argument is if a person is “saved” by works but often is manipulated into a fight to justify disobedience after a person is “saved,” and that is after a person finally has the power of the Holy Spirit to be obedient.
Remember the Alcoholics Anonymous passage from a while ago that spoke of how “we have ceased fighting anything of anyone,” and if we are tempted, we “recoil from it as from a hot flame.” This passage ended with “the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.” Let’s look at the paragraph following that one:
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on your laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the message of God’s will into all of our activities. “How can I best serve Thee – Thy will (not mine) be done.” These are thoughts which must go with us constantly.
Alcoholics Anonymous pg. 85
Now, I want to go back to the overarching fact I made at the beginning of this discussion: Both sides of this argument actually believe similarly if not really believe the exact same things and are really arguing about how things are stated. Anyone reading these scriptures see that both we are only saved by faith as a gift from God and also that we must also be obedient to the instructions God gave us. We must be obedient, especially if He has given us such a great gift and given us the Spirit so we can be better equipped to be obedient.
The two sides of this supposed argument are really an exercise in confusing the obvious. We need to get over the wording and description and focus on what God wants to happen to each of us.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
What I want to do next is to show how Jesus not only described all of this, but also what he did in practice as an example.